Discussion:
Charles Demands Multi-Faith Coronation Service
(too old to reply)
Coco
2006-10-26 15:02:59 UTC
Permalink
26th October 2006

Prince Charles wants a multi-faith service when he is crowned King, it
has been claimed

Prince Charles wants to be crowned King in a multi-faith coronation
service in a dramatic break with tradition, it is claimed.

The Prince is said to have decided that the Christian service in
Westminster Abbey must be followed by a separate ceremony involving
religious leaders from other faiths.

Held in the ancient Westminster Hall inside the Palace of Westminster,
the service would attempt to give room to Muslim, Hindu, Jewish and
Sikh beliefs as well as other Christian denominations.

Prince Charles believes reforms to the coronation are vital to reflect
the changes in British society that have taken place since the Queen
was crowned in 1953, according to a report in this week's Spectator
magazine.

It also claims he has been appalled by the string of politicians
"sounding off" about multiculturalism, in particular the wearing of the
veil by Muslim women.

Clarence House refused to comment on the claims.

It has always declined to discuss Prince Charles's coronation plans
while the Queen is alive.

However, a senior source told the Daily Mail that the accession plans
had been reviewed last year, though he insisted this was "routine."

The prince, who will become Supreme Governor of the Church of England
when he becomes king, has already said that he wants to be Defender of
Faith - not Defender of the Faith - when he accedes to the throne.

He is close to Lord Carey, the former Archbishop of Canterbury, who has
called for a multi-faith coronation.

That puts him at odds with Rowan Williams, his successor, and with most
Anglican bishops, who oppose such a move.

The crowning of the sovereign has taken place for almost 1,000 years at
Westminster Abbey. The new king or queen takes the coronation oath
which includes a pledge to maintain the Church of England.

At her coronation in 1953, the Queen swore to uphold "the laws of God
and the true profession of the Gospel, maintain the Protestant reformed
religion established by law and maintain and reserve inviolably the
settlement of the Church of England."

The Spectator article quotes a courtier as saying the Queen recognises,
however, that she has no say over her son's coronation service.

"Her Majesty has carried out her duties to the letter throughout her
life and she knows that they extend to the very end of the final act,"
he says.

"She recognises, however, that she should not exert her influence one
second beyond the conclusion of her funeral. The coronation is a matter
solely for the PoW."

The report says Prince Charles is keen that his coronation should "bear
his imprimatur" and that it should be seen to mark the beginning of a
new era and a new kind of reign.

Although his mother permitted television cameras from the BBC into
Westminster Abbey to transmit live pictures of her coronation, they
were required to withdraw at certain points in the ceremony which she
felt to be too sacred.

But Prince Charles is said to believe that such deference is now
inappropriate.

He also wants the service truncated into a "less unwieldy' and more
'focused and telecentric" event, according to the report.

He also believes it should acknowledge the religious diversity of the
country that he will be ruling.

The report says that following the formal Christian ceremony in the
Abbey, the Prince wants here should be a separate interdenominational
ceremony in Westminster Hall to reflect his desire to represent the
peoples of all religions.

The separate gathering would be unlikely to take place immediately
after the formal Christian coronation, but at a later date.

While Labour politicians have attacked the failings of multiculturalism
in recent months, the idea of a separate coronation service to meet the
requirements of other faiths has recently been mooted by the
Evangelical Alliance, which represents a million evangelical Christians
in the UK.

"It is no secret that the PoW has long felt passionately about this
matter," the courtier added.

"His determination not to yield so much as an inch of this ground has
been strengthened a hundredfold by the events of recent weeks."

"It has dismayed him to see the people who will one day be his subjects
turn upon each other on the basis of their religious convictions."
"As sovereign, he will wish to demonstrate that he is apart from the
politicians who have been sounding off so much lately on, among other
things, the issue of veils and that he can set an example for the
entire country to follow."

I'd always had the greatest respect for Charles, despite some of his
weaknesses and didn't want to see him passed over but this puts a
different light on things. Does he really think he is important enough
to discard over a thousand years of English tradition to satisfy his
own ideas of what his role should be? It was bad enough that the Queen
gave over a SAXON tower in Windsor for Muslim prayer, (an insult to
those who built it and who lived it and to the rest of us whose
heritage it is) but this is getting ridiculous. We have to honour our
own traditions as English people and Charles is sending out the wrong
message to all of us. To put it bluntly, he's slapping our heritage,
our history, our people and our England in the face. He cannot be king.
- Charlie, North Yorks

This is an excellent idea which will promote tolerance and
understanding. Islam is a faith of loving our neighbours, including
those who are not Islam. Well done to Prince Charles.
- Osama bin Laden
Breton
2006-10-26 16:02:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Coco
26th October 2006
Prince Charles wants a multi-faith service when he is crowned King, it
has been claimed
Prince Charles wants to be crowned King in a multi-faith coronation
service in a dramatic break with tradition, it is claimed.
The Prince is said to have decided that the Christian service in
Westminster Abbey must be followed by a separate ceremony involving
religious leaders from other faiths.
Held in the ancient Westminster Hall inside the Palace of Westminster,
the service would attempt to give room to Muslim, Hindu, Jewish and
Sikh beliefs as well as other Christian denominations.
Prince Charles believes reforms to the coronation are vital to reflect
the changes in British society that have taken place since the Queen
was crowned in 1953, according to a report in this week's Spectator
magazine.
AGR readers may be interested in the following post in another
newsgroup. I won't name the group or the poster:


How will the Moslem clerics participate when it is specifically against
their
religious teachings to join in the religious ceremonies of another
faith? Since
they are presently quite bitterly divided among Shiites, Sunnis,
Ishmaelis and
Alawites, would these different strands all be represented?

What constitutes a religious belief system? There are apparently more
practicing
Druids than Jews in the UK; will the Druids be invited? And will
representation
of the Jews be by the Chief Rabbi? In which case, why should the Reform
and
Liberal Jewish communities not have their own rep? Or the Hasidim?

And what about atheists, can they invite Prof Dawkins to represent
them? Or
Scientologists - how about Tom Cruise coming along? Will the Mormons be
coming?
Where exactly can the line be drawn between what might be defined as or

considered acceptable as a legitimate religion or belief system and
what not?

And what about schismatic groups of the major Christian churches? Will
the
Lefebvrists be sending along a Bishop? Or the Old Catholics? Or the
Anglicans
who have struck out on their own in protest at women priests?

How about the Sikhs, who will represent them? or Buddhists? or the
Moonies? or
Shintoists? Or Animists? Why not witches?

I can forsee mass protests by those whose particular groups are not
invited and
battles between different factions of the same religions.

Surely it is best to let things remain exactly as they are and simply
invite to
Westminster Abbey such eminent citizens as may be found drawn from each
of those
groups that can muster more than 0.5 % of the population. They could
then be
chosen in numbers relating directly to the numbers of their
co-religionists,
with someone insuring that major ethnic groups within each religious
group are
properly represented. With a total of perhaps 5% of the population
subscribing
to some faith other than Christianity or Atheism, some 100 or so out of
the 2000
in the congregation could be from these minorities. If any of the
invited
worthies have some scruples about participating in a Church of England
service,
then they can decline and have the community send someone in their
place.

The idea that the participation of eminent Moslems in any fashion is
somehow
going to change the views or behaviour of disaffected Moslem youth, or
give them
any greater sense of belonging than they have at present, is in any
case a
foolish fantasy.

Perhaps the future king should instead consider dropping the title
Defender of
the Faith, since it was given by a grateful Pope to a King who
subsequently
proved himself singularly unworthy of the title, and not worry about
this any
more.

Breton
s***@example.com
2006-10-26 16:23:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Breton
Perhaps the future king should instead consider dropping the title
Defender of the Faith, since it was given by a grateful Pope to a King who
subsequently proved himself singularly unworthy of the title, and not worry about
this any more.
If I recall correctly, the papal title was given to Henry VIII
personally, and not to him and his heirs.
But in any case, it's now part of the title recognised by Parliament.
f***@verizon.net
2006-10-30 13:13:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Breton
What constitutes a religious belief system? There are apparently more
practicing
Druids than Jews in the UK; will the Druids be invited?
Now THAT would be cool!
Bring on the woad!!

http://www.druidorder.demon.co.uk/
http://www.druidry.org/
www.archdruid.co.uk/
Post by Breton
And will
representation
of the Jews be by the Chief Rabbi? In which case, why should the Reform
and
Liberal Jewish communities not have their own rep? Or the Hasidim?
The only one without the same problems as the Muslims would be the
Reform, in which case the Chief Rabbi might be slighted.
But the whole discussion reminds me of 2 things: the discussion I had
with my Dad while watching Charles' first (or Andrew's?) wedding, with
the parade of different Xian clerics. He starts off with "Where's the chief
rabbi?" to which I shot back "behind the Grand Mufti."

But, of course, we're forgetting about the real point of this: there is NO
PROOF WHATSOEVER that Charles has DEMANDED ANYTHING of
the SORT.

SusanC
yD
2006-10-26 17:51:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Coco
26th October 2006
Prince Charles wants a multi-faith service when he is crowned King, it
has been claimed
Prince Charles wants to be crowned King in a multi-faith coronation
service in a dramatic break with tradition, it is claimed.
The Prince is said to have decided that the Christian service in
Westminster Abbey must be followed by a separate ceremony involving
religious leaders from other faiths.
As long as he is sitting on the Stone of Scone I think we can consider
him crowned.
Post by Coco
Held in the ancient Westminster Hall inside the Palace of Westminster,
the service would attempt to give room to Muslim, Hindu, Jewish and
Sikh beliefs as well as other Christian denominations.
This sounds a bit more like the reception after the wedding than a
second coronation.
Post by Coco
Prince Charles believes reforms to the coronation are vital to reflect
the changes in British society that have taken place since the Queen
was crowned in 1953, according to a report in this week's Spectator
magazine.
Then don't get crowned in a Christian ceremony. Have one coronation in
a neutral place.
Post by Coco
It also claims he has been appalled by the string of politicians
"sounding off" about multiculturalism, in particular the wearing of the
veil by Muslim women.
I wonder if he's in the minority of non-Muslims on this issue, or if he
is as attracted to Islam as has been suggested. But regardless of if
or how he wants that old multiculturalism to work, he still has to
consider the feelings of non-Muslims as well as Muslims, men and women
alike who are against the veil. And he would also have to keep in mind
that it is a tradition of *some* Muslim sects, not a general Islamic
requirement.
Post by Coco
Clarence House refused to comment on the claims.
It has always declined to discuss Prince Charles's coronation plans
while the Queen is alive.
However, a senior source told the Daily Mail that the accession plans
had been reviewed last year, though he insisted this was "routine."
I would imagine there are regular updatings on the ceremony.
Post by Coco
The prince, who will become Supreme Governor of the Church of England
when he becomes king, has already said that he wants to be Defender of
Faith - not Defender of the Faith - when he accedes to the throne.
So, what's he gonna do? Refuse or deny the title or keep it and add
Grand Mufti of All Islam, Great Poo-Bah of Budhism, Most Excellent of
all Jews etc etc etc Or maybe just the one he's already put forth:
Defender of Faith. It's a poser, that's for sure. Of course, if he is
ill or in his 70s when his mother dies, it'll be moot, imo, because I
still believe he is sensible enough not to put William in the position
of waiting and waiting and waiting for him to die. If I am wrong,
however, I do not think he will give up being crowned in Westminister
Abbey -- it's so grand.
Post by Coco
He is close to Lord Carey, the former Archbishop of Canterbury, who has
called for a multi-faith coronation.
That puts him at odds with Rowan Williams, his successor, and with most
Anglican bishops, who oppose such a move.
The crowning of the sovereign has taken place for almost 1,000 years at
Westminster Abbey. The new king or queen takes the coronation oath
which includes a pledge to maintain the Church of England.
At her coronation in 1953, the Queen swore to uphold "the laws of God
and the true profession of the Gospel, maintain the Protestant reformed
religion established by law and maintain and reserve inviolably the
settlement of the Church of England."
The Spectator article quotes a courtier as saying the Queen recognises,
however, that she has no say over her son's coronation service.
Well, she wouldn't would she, she'd be dead.
Post by Coco
"Her Majesty has carried out her duties to the letter throughout her
life and she knows that they extend to the very end of the final act,"
he says.
"She recognises, however, that she should not exert her influence one
second beyond the conclusion of her funeral. The coronation is a matter
solely for the PoW."
The report says Prince Charles is keen that his coronation should "bear
his imprimatur" and that it should be seen to mark the beginning of a
new era and a new kind of reign.
Although his mother permitted television cameras from the BBC into
Westminster Abbey to transmit live pictures of her coronation, they
were required to withdraw at certain points in the ceremony which she
felt to be too sacred.
I didn't know that!
Post by Coco
But Prince Charles is said to believe that such deference is now
inappropriate.
He also wants the service truncated into a "less unwieldy' and more
'focused and telecentric" event, according to the report.
No doubt he remembers the idiocy of his investiture as Prince of Wales.
Post by Coco
He also believes it should acknowledge the religious diversity of the
country that he will be ruling.
With all due respect, he doesn't have to change or deny his
Christianity to do that.
Post by Coco
The report says that following the formal Christian ceremony in the
Abbey, the Prince wants here should be a separate interdenominational
ceremony in Westminster Hall to reflect his desire to represent the
peoples of all religions.
So, he wants it all: but it is the Christian crowning that will make
him King.
Post by Coco
The separate gathering would be unlikely to take place immediately
after the formal Christian coronation, but at a later date.
And could, rightly, be seen as a sop to other religions, and nothing
for agnostics, humanists or atheists.
Post by Coco
While Labour politicians have attacked the failings of multiculturalism
in recent months,
Several years behind the complaints of a lot of British citizens.

the idea of a separate coronation service to meet the
Post by Coco
requirements of other faiths has recently been mooted by the
Evangelical Alliance, which represents a million evangelical Christians
in the UK.
"It is no secret that the PoW has long felt passionately about this
matter," the courtier added.
"His determination not to yield so much as an inch of this ground has
been strengthened a hundredfold by the events of recent weeks."
"It has dismayed him to see the people who will one day be his subjects
turn upon each other on the basis of their religious convictions."
"As sovereign, he will wish to demonstrate that he is apart from the
politicians who have been sounding off so much lately on, among other
things, the issue of veils and that he can set an example for the
entire country to follow."
LOL what happens if the men and women of all but the men (sic)
belonging to two or three Muslim sects want the veil scrapped. What
can he do to prevent them turning " upon each other on the basis of
their religious convictions?'
Post by Coco
I'd always had the greatest respect for Charles, despite some of his
weaknesses and didn't want to see him passed over but this puts a
different light on things. Does he really think he is important enough
to discard over a thousand years of English tradition to satisfy his
own ideas of what his role should be?
Worse than that, imo, he wants to be all things to all people. And he
can't. If he has the traditional coronation in Westminister Abbey then
the rest is rubbish. Perhaps he thinks his "subjects" won't notice.
Perhaps, when it comes to it, a Westminister coronation will be denied
him, along with the titles aligning him with the Church of England, on
the grounds that he is not a Christian let alone a believer in the
Anglican faith (this is assuming his interest in Islam is not
exaggerated).

It was bad enough that the Queen
Post by Coco
gave over a SAXON tower in Windsor for Muslim prayer, (an insult to
those who built it and who lived it and to the rest of us whose
heritage it is) but this is getting ridiculous. We have to honour our
own traditions as English people and Charles is sending out the wrong
message to all of us. To put it bluntly, he's slapping our heritage,
our history, our people and our England in the face. He cannot be king.
- Charlie, North Yorks
Again, it seems to me that he wants it all but when it comes to
religion, he can't have more than one official/legal ceremony after
which he will be King. If he isn't a Christian he has to give up the
Abbey and all titles to the Church of England. If he is a Christian,
and is crowned in Westminister Abbey then any other ceremony/ies are
white wash and wimpy and will be seen, perhaps, by some as insulting to
their religion. How many times can it be said -- there is one ceremony
after which you will be King. Decide where to do it and if it is not a
fully Christian ceremony, have fun with bits of pieces of all the other
religions in your realm, but accept that you cannot have a
non-Christian coronation in Westminster Abbey.
yD
Post by Coco
This is an excellent idea which will promote tolerance and
understanding. Islam is a faith of loving our neighbours, including
those who are not Islam. Well done to Prince Charles.
- Osama bin Laden
t***@comcast.net
2006-10-26 18:38:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by yD
So, he wants it all: but it is the Christian crowning that will make
him King.
Nope- the coronation has *nothing* to do with making him king.
He will already be king when the coronation takes place.
Remeber- Edward VIII was never crowned and yet was king before his
abdication.

--
The Verminator
yD
2006-10-26 19:29:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by t***@comcast.net
Post by yD
So, he wants it all: but it is the Christian crowning that will make
him King.
Nope- the coronation has *nothing* to do with making him king.
He will already be king when the coronation takes place.
Remeber- Edward VIII was never crowned and yet was king before his
abdication.
--
The Verminator
Yup. You're right. So, may I please change my post to the *ceremony*
... Churcho f England ... Christian and that any other ceremony will be
superflous to his needs and insulting to those who will be insulted at
being patronised by an all religions, unnecessary, ceremony. Thank
you. I wonder, though, if the CofE will refuse to crown him (no pun
intended) if his interest in Islam is true.
But I still believe that if Charles is in his 70s, or even very late
60s when his mother dies, he will abdicate in favor of William, but, as
you say he will be Queen, and his little Colonel will be Queen for as
long as it takes for the abdication to be processed.
yD
JFlexer
2006-10-27 21:19:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by yD
Post by t***@comcast.net
Post by yD
So, he wants it all: but it is the Christian crowning that will make
him King.
Nope- the coronation has *nothing* to do with making him king.
He will already be king when the coronation takes place.
Remeber- Edward VIII was never crowned and yet was king before his
abdication.
--
The Verminator
Yup. You're right. So, may I please change my post to the *ceremony*
... Churcho f England ... Christian and that any other ceremony will be
superflous to his needs and insulting to those who will be insulted at
being patronised by an all religions, unnecessary, ceremony. Thank
you. I wonder, though, if the CofE will refuse to crown him (no pun
intended) if his interest in Islam is true.
But I still believe that if Charles is in his 70s, or even very late
60s when his mother dies, he will abdicate in favor of William, but, as
you say he will be Queen, and his little Colonel will be Queen for as
long as it takes for the abdication to be processed.
yD
I don't think so. I think Charles get's the idea of "Duty" as much as his
mother - but that he also has his own interpretation on what Duty means...
I suspect he will take the crown and revert to being a relatively benign
King, in much the same way that other controversial PoW's have done before
him...

It is pretty certain, however, that he will have a relatively short reign
and William will probably come to the throne at a relatively young age.

There is a curious scenario that comes to mind... I wonder what role
Duchess of Cornwall would assume if Charles were to die tomorrow, and
William becomes the heir apparent - do you think she would quietly withdraw
to some "country estate" or that she'd continue to have a public role in the
current scheme of things, as well as in the court of King William?
--
-J
yD
2006-10-30 22:17:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by JFlexer
Post by yD
Post by t***@comcast.net
Post by yD
So, he wants it all: but it is the Christian crowning that will make
him King.
Nope- the coronation has *nothing* to do with making him king.
He will already be king when the coronation takes place.
Remeber- Edward VIII was never crowned and yet was king before his
abdication.
--
The Verminator
Yup. You're right. So, may I please change my post to the *ceremony*
... Churcho f England ... Christian and that any other ceremony will be
superflous to his needs and insulting to those who will be insulted at
being patronised by an all religions, unnecessary, ceremony. Thank
you. I wonder, though, if the CofE will refuse to crown him (no pun
intended) if his interest in Islam is true.
But I still believe that if Charles is in his 70s, or even very late
60s when his mother dies, he will abdicate in favor of William, but, as
you say he will be Queen, and his little Colonel will be Queen for as
long as it takes for the abdication to be processed.
yD
I don't think so. I think Charles get's the idea of "Duty" as much as his
mother - but that he also has his own interpretation on what Duty means...
I suspect he will take the crown and revert to being a relatively benign
King, in much the same way that other controversial PoW's have done before
him...
Well, don't forget he's going to be quite old when his mother dies --
yes, even if she dies tomorrow (God forbid), and when we get older we
become less entuhused, or at least don't have the same energy to have
bright ideas and put them into practice. And, it's not as if he, or
anyone, can just say, here's what I want and it's done, these things,
anything takes years to go through the system.
Post by JFlexer
It is pretty certain, however, that he will have a relatively short reign
and William will probably come to the throne at a relatively young age.
There is a curious scenario that comes to mind... I wonder what role
Duchess of Cornwall would assume if Charles were to die tomorrow, and
William becomes the heir apparent - do you think she would quietly withdraw
to some "country estate" or that she'd continue to have a public role in the
current scheme of things, as well as in the court of King William?
Quiet retirement -- William will probably give her somewhere, if she
doesn't want to go back to the home she maintains where all the extra
security was added, that is. A little cottage in the grounds of
Windsor might be nice. And remember that our idea of a little cottage
is most definitely not the same as that of the royals. But, yes,
quiet, I think -- unless one or more of her kids, grandkids, neices,
nephews etc. all stay on the right side of the law and the tabloid
newspapers.
yD
Post by JFlexer
--
-J
JFlexer
2006-10-31 00:02:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by yD
Post by JFlexer
Post by yD
Post by t***@comcast.net
Post by yD
So, he wants it all: but it is the Christian crowning that will make
him King.
Nope- the coronation has *nothing* to do with making him king.
He will already be king when the coronation takes place.
Remeber- Edward VIII was never crowned and yet was king before his
abdication.
--
The Verminator
Yup. You're right. So, may I please change my post to the *ceremony*
... Churcho f England ... Christian and that any other ceremony will be
superflous to his needs and insulting to those who will be insulted at
being patronised by an all religions, unnecessary, ceremony. Thank
you. I wonder, though, if the CofE will refuse to crown him (no pun
intended) if his interest in Islam is true.
But I still believe that if Charles is in his 70s, or even very late
60s when his mother dies, he will abdicate in favor of William, but, as
you say he will be Queen, and his little Colonel will be Queen for as
long as it takes for the abdication to be processed.
yD
I don't think so. I think Charles get's the idea of "Duty" as much as his
mother - but that he also has his own interpretation on what Duty means...
I suspect he will take the crown and revert to being a relatively benign
King, in much the same way that other controversial PoW's have done before
him...
Well, don't forget he's going to be quite old when his mother dies --
yes, even if she dies tomorrow (God forbid), and when we get older we
become less entuhused, or at least don't have the same energy to have
bright ideas and put them into practice. And, it's not as if he, or
anyone, can just say, here's what I want and it's done, these things,
anything takes years to go through the system.
Post by JFlexer
It is pretty certain, however, that he will have a relatively short reign
and William will probably come to the throne at a relatively young age.
There is a curious scenario that comes to mind... I wonder what role
Duchess of Cornwall would assume if Charles were to die tomorrow, and
William becomes the heir apparent - do you think she would quietly withdraw
to some "country estate" or that she'd continue to have a public role in the
current scheme of things, as well as in the court of King William?
Quiet retirement -- William will probably give her somewhere, if she
doesn't want to go back to the home she maintains where all the extra
security was added, that is.
I'd forgotten about her "bolt hole" - I bet that is where she'd retire...
provided there's ample room for horses.
Post by yD
A little cottage in the grounds of
Windsor might be nice. And remember that our idea of a little cottage
is most definitely not the same as that of the royals.
I'd love to have the problem of "downsizing" to a Windsor Great Park
cottage! LOL!
Post by yD
But, yes,
quiet, I think -- unless one or more of her kids, grandkids, neices,
nephews etc. all stay on the right side of the law and the tabloid
newspapers.
yD
Haven't they been relatively quiet since the wedding? Maybe they've finally
outgrown that teenage stage....

I wonder, if in the case of Royals (and prominent Nobles), we should name
that young and rebellious stage - many of them seem to experience it...
As an appropriate name, I nominate "The Stephanie Stage" in honor of the
Princess Stephanie of Monaco...

--
-J
yD
2006-10-31 14:57:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by JFlexer
Post by yD
Post by JFlexer
Post by yD
Post by t***@comcast.net
Post by yD
So, he wants it all: but it is the Christian crowning that will make
him King.
Nope- the coronation has *nothing* to do with making him king.
He will already be king when the coronation takes place.
Remeber- Edward VIII was never crowned and yet was king before his
abdication.
--
The Verminator
Yup. You're right. So, may I please change my post to the *ceremony*
... Churcho f England ... Christian and that any other ceremony will be
superflous to his needs and insulting to those who will be insulted at
being patronised by an all religions, unnecessary, ceremony. Thank
you. I wonder, though, if the CofE will refuse to crown him (no pun
intended) if his interest in Islam is true.
But I still believe that if Charles is in his 70s, or even very late
60s when his mother dies, he will abdicate in favor of William, but, as
you say he will be Queen, and his little Colonel will be Queen for as
long as it takes for the abdication to be processed.
yD
I don't think so. I think Charles get's the idea of "Duty" as much as his
mother - but that he also has his own interpretation on what Duty means...
I suspect he will take the crown and revert to being a relatively benign
King, in much the same way that other controversial PoW's have done before
him...
Well, don't forget he's going to be quite old when his mother dies --
yes, even if she dies tomorrow (God forbid), and when we get older we
become less entuhused, or at least don't have the same energy to have
bright ideas and put them into practice. And, it's not as if he, or
anyone, can just say, here's what I want and it's done, these things,
anything takes years to go through the system.
Post by JFlexer
It is pretty certain, however, that he will have a relatively short reign
and William will probably come to the throne at a relatively young age.
There is a curious scenario that comes to mind... I wonder what role
Duchess of Cornwall would assume if Charles were to die tomorrow, and
William becomes the heir apparent - do you think she would quietly withdraw
to some "country estate" or that she'd continue to have a public role in the
current scheme of things, as well as in the court of King William?
Quiet retirement -- William will probably give her somewhere, if she
doesn't want to go back to the home she maintains where all the extra
security was added, that is.
I'd forgotten about her "bolt hole" - I bet that is where she'd retire...
provided there's ample room for horses.
And her children and, hopefully, one day her grandchildren. Though I
expect that one or both of them will get their own titles, perhaps on
the death of the Queen. Not that that gives them land or property, of
course, but ... I'm just sayin'
Post by JFlexer
Post by yD
A little cottage in the grounds of
Windsor might be nice. And remember that our idea of a little cottage
is most definitely not the same as that of the royals.
I'd love to have the problem of "downsizing" to a Windsor Great Park
cottage! LOL!
I was going to suggest Beaumont Fort (?) (the old home of the then
Prince of Wales) but isn't that 'taken'?
Post by JFlexer
Post by yD
But, yes,
quiet, I think -- unless one or more of her kids, grandkids, neices,
nephews etc. all stay on the right side of the law and the tabloid
newspapers.
yD
Haven't they been relatively quiet since the wedding? Maybe they've finally
outgrown that teenage stage....
Charles & Camilla? Couldn't resist :) Well, most of us leave our
teens behind when we get married or well into our twenties, at least :)
Post by JFlexer
I wonder, if in the case of Royals (and prominent Nobles), we should name
that young and rebellious stage - many of them seem to experience it...
As an appropriate name, I nominate "The Stephanie Stage" in honor of the
Princess Stephanie of Monaco...
Nawh! The Harry Stage; drink and drugs in the basement clubhouse --
hmmm maybe not, means he's not so much a teen rebel as a rich kid
hanging out in daddy's house, thus depriving the lonely nation of the
staggering home drunk photos -- although to be fair to Harry, we did
get a reasonable number of those too.
Okay, by default then, The Stephanie Stage.
yD :)
Post by JFlexer
--
-J
JFlexer
2006-10-31 19:47:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by yD
Post by JFlexer
Post by yD
Post by JFlexer
Post by yD
Post by t***@comcast.net
Post by yD
So, he wants it all: but it is the Christian crowning that will make
him King.
Nope- the coronation has *nothing* to do with making him king.
He will already be king when the coronation takes place.
Remeber- Edward VIII was never crowned and yet was king before his
abdication.
--
The Verminator
Yup. You're right. So, may I please change my post to the *ceremony*
... Churcho f England ... Christian and that any other ceremony will be
superflous to his needs and insulting to those who will be insulted at
being patronised by an all religions, unnecessary, ceremony. Thank
you. I wonder, though, if the CofE will refuse to crown him (no pun
intended) if his interest in Islam is true.
But I still believe that if Charles is in his 70s, or even very late
60s when his mother dies, he will abdicate in favor of William, but, as
you say he will be Queen, and his little Colonel will be Queen for as
long as it takes for the abdication to be processed.
yD
I don't think so. I think Charles get's the idea of "Duty" as much as his
mother - but that he also has his own interpretation on what Duty means...
I suspect he will take the crown and revert to being a relatively benign
King, in much the same way that other controversial PoW's have done before
him...
Well, don't forget he's going to be quite old when his mother dies --
yes, even if she dies tomorrow (God forbid), and when we get older we
become less entuhused, or at least don't have the same energy to have
bright ideas and put them into practice. And, it's not as if he, or
anyone, can just say, here's what I want and it's done, these things,
anything takes years to go through the system.
Post by JFlexer
It is pretty certain, however, that he will have a relatively short reign
and William will probably come to the throne at a relatively young age.
There is a curious scenario that comes to mind... I wonder what role
Duchess of Cornwall would assume if Charles were to die tomorrow, and
William becomes the heir apparent - do you think she would quietly withdraw
to some "country estate" or that she'd continue to have a public role
in
the
current scheme of things, as well as in the court of King William?
Quiet retirement -- William will probably give her somewhere, if she
doesn't want to go back to the home she maintains where all the extra
security was added, that is.
I'd forgotten about her "bolt hole" - I bet that is where she'd retire...
provided there's ample room for horses.
And her children and, hopefully, one day her grandchildren. Though I
expect that one or both of them will get their own titles, perhaps on
the death of the Queen. Not that that gives them land or property, of
course, but ... I'm just sayin'
I don't know about that - I mean, they haven't given titles to Margaret or
Anne's children, and they have a direct "blood" tie which would logically
imply nobility... Their mothers are royal by birth and titled in their own
right (children of a sovereign and all that) - Camilla's title is only
courtesy...

--
-J
yD
2006-10-31 20:50:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by JFlexer
Post by yD
Post by JFlexer
Post by yD
Post by JFlexer
Post by yD
Post by t***@comcast.net
Post by yD
So, he wants it all: but it is the Christian crowning that will make
him King.
Nope- the coronation has *nothing* to do with making him king.
He will already be king when the coronation takes place.
Remeber- Edward VIII was never crowned and yet was king before his
abdication.
--
The Verminator
Yup. You're right. So, may I please change my post to the *ceremony*
... Churcho f England ... Christian and that any other ceremony will be
superflous to his needs and insulting to those who will be insulted at
being patronised by an all religions, unnecessary, ceremony. Thank
you. I wonder, though, if the CofE will refuse to crown him (no pun
intended) if his interest in Islam is true.
But I still believe that if Charles is in his 70s, or even very late
60s when his mother dies, he will abdicate in favor of William, but, as
you say he will be Queen, and his little Colonel will be Queen for as
long as it takes for the abdication to be processed.
yD
I don't think so. I think Charles get's the idea of "Duty" as much as his
mother - but that he also has his own interpretation on what Duty means...
I suspect he will take the crown and revert to being a relatively benign
King, in much the same way that other controversial PoW's have done before
him...
Well, don't forget he's going to be quite old when his mother dies --
yes, even if she dies tomorrow (God forbid), and when we get older we
become less entuhused, or at least don't have the same energy to have
bright ideas and put them into practice. And, it's not as if he, or
anyone, can just say, here's what I want and it's done, these things,
anything takes years to go through the system.
Post by JFlexer
It is pretty certain, however, that he will have a relatively short reign
and William will probably come to the throne at a relatively young age.
There is a curious scenario that comes to mind... I wonder what role
Duchess of Cornwall would assume if Charles were to die tomorrow, and
William becomes the heir apparent - do you think she would quietly withdraw
to some "country estate" or that she'd continue to have a public role
in
the
current scheme of things, as well as in the court of King William?
Quiet retirement -- William will probably give her somewhere, if she
doesn't want to go back to the home she maintains where all the extra
security was added, that is.
I'd forgotten about her "bolt hole" - I bet that is where she'd retire...
provided there's ample room for horses.
And her children and, hopefully, one day her grandchildren. Though I
expect that one or both of them will get their own titles, perhaps on
the death of the Queen. Not that that gives them land or property, of
course, but ... I'm just sayin'
I don't know about that - I mean, they haven't given titles to Margaret or
Anne's children, and they have a direct "blood" tie which would logically
imply nobility... Their mothers are royal by birth and titled in their own
right (children of a sovereign and all that)
I was thinking that Charles, when King, might give them titles as a
gift to Camilla, if you see what I mean.

- Camilla's title is only
Post by JFlexer
courtesy...
LOL *All* her titles, you mean :) I still prefer Countess to Duchess,
just as a word.
yD
Post by JFlexer
--
-J
Breton
2006-10-31 21:09:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by yD
I was thinking that Charles, when King, might give them titles as a
gift to Camilla, if you see what I mean.
It's not just you, but others as well, who periodically raise the issue
of giving titles to members of the Queen's family who do not have them.
Quite aside from the fact that the titles system depends on the rule of
primogeniture of the male side of the family, the fact is that there's
no evidence that any of these people actually need, or want, these
titles. The children of the Princess Royal appear to be happy and
content being known as Mr. or Miss, likewise the children of the
Duchess of Cornwall.

The idea of giving the children of the DssOC these titles as a gift to
CAmilla seems, frankly, a bit daft. If I was Camilla I'd say "I would
rather have had the necklace!" (or whatever).

Breton

f***@verizon.net
2006-10-31 05:47:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by JFlexer
I wonder what role
Post by JFlexer
Duchess of Cornwall would assume if Charles were to die tomorrow, and
William becomes the heir apparent - do you think she would quietly withdraw
to some "country estate" or that she'd continue to have a public role in the
current scheme of things, as well as in the court of King William?
Quiet retirement
Oh, yes, definitely - especially in the light of the fact that she never
really wanted a public role, anyway.
Post by JFlexer
-- William will probably give her somewhere, if she
doesn't want to go back to the home she maintains where all the extra
security was added, that is. A little cottage in the grounds of
Windsor might be nice. And remember that our idea of a little cottage
is most definitely not the same as that of the royals. But, yes,
quiet, I think -- unless one or more of her kids, grandkids, neices,
nephews etc. all stay on the right side of the law and the tabloid
newspapers.
I can't see William being petty and/or derelict in his responsibility
over something that she can't control.

SusanC
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